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openShipping Wank and Character Bashing Live Action TV
Vrotdugi made this edit to Supernatural deleting most of the entry's commentary on what I have found to my knowledge to be accurate and neutrally-written descriptions of the criticisms viewers had about the ending, changing it to complain about Destiel (Dean/Castiel) shippers, even though the debates over the show queerbaiting with Destiel have become a mainstream issuenote On that note, the edit that claims all of the staff have spoken out against Destiel being a thing is also blatantly untrue: while some have certainly denied it and possibly chalked it up to delusional shippers, others have openly supported it and the show features several characters who openly behave like an explicit Shipper on Deck, which means the situation is more accurately described as Armed with Canon or intermittent Running the Asylum by more ship-friendly staffers. In fact, multiple Word of Saint Paul openly supporting Destiel is the main reason why the show became so controversial, since it made accusations from fans of Western Bait-and-Switch Lesbians credible for once as the creators couldn't fall back on the reliable method of calling them a platonic duo with Relationship Writing Fumble-induced plausible deniability otherwise..
They also removed this entry describing the show's Take That! jokes aimed at Wincest (Dean/Sam Winchester, who are brothers) fans. Though I'm not especially sad to see the latter gone due to its inherent negativity, the entry was accurate and written objectively, and they gave no good reason as to why they removed it.
As someone who does not watch the show but is somewhat familiar with aspects of it through (mostly non-shipper) friends who do, I started watching the page to guard it against potential Fan Dumb and Hate Dumb vandalism in the wake of the various November 5 controversies. Since then there's been several entries about Castiel which even I found to be excessively negative. And looking at their past edits I noticed that indeed they were all by this same troper. More specifically, they added this entry accusing Castiel of being a Villain Protagonist who is cruel to one of the heroes (given the show, literally all of the heroes are guilty of major wrongdoing and he is not unique), as well as this Unfortunate Implications entry accusing him of being abusive, which I deleted and rewrote because it did not even bother to provide a qualified citation, on top of being obvious character-bashing.
While Castiel isn't a character without controversy or legitimate reasons to dislike him, it's usually not centered around these particular issues. In particular, both of these interpretations are widely considered to be Ron the Death Eater takes from the extreme end of the Wincest shipping fandom by people with a Die for Our Ship grudge against Castiel, or hardcore Sam Winchester stans who are convinced that Castiel "wronged" their fave. In other words, a Vocal Minority opinion, and not one that is shared or considered rational by a large part of the audience.
Together it is clear that they are posting with a clear shipping agenda at work. I'm not going to criticize them for their choice of ship as I quite frankly do not care for ship wars or arguments on their morality or not. But as someone who has dealt with cleaning up shipping-related vandalism on multiple pages in the past, it's a huge Berserk Button for me, to the point that I've started following pages such as these specifically to keep that kind of garbage from happening on my watch (which inevitably did). If Vrotdugi sees this thread, I should make this very clear: we do not tolerate that sort of behavior on this website.
Edited by AlleyOopopenPossible Fandom Agenda-Based Edits? Live Action TV
I've been monitoring the Supernatural page for a while now to cut down on agenda-based editing in wake of the show's controversial ending. I know enough about it from osmosis to understand what the different fandom camps are, which generally fall into three camps: Destiel fans (Dean/Castiel shippers, the largest group), Wincest fans (Sam/Dean shippers, second most common group), and Bibros (platonic Sam+Dean, the audience to whom the show has officially markets itself, though the show's LGBT Fanbase and Yaoi Fangirls have famously disputed this), and how acrimonious things are that keeping an eye on that page is necessary.
Destiel and Wincest fans notoriously do not get along, and I've had to clean up vandalism related to that war in the past. Bibros, though they officially prefer the brothers' relationship platonic, often take the side of Wincest fans against Destiel fans because they share more in common. Bibros are characterized as not liking non-Sam or Dean characters in general, but their dislike for Castiel is less because of Die for Our Ship and more because they consider him a Spotlight-Stealing Squad who took attention away from Sam and made the show more about an expanded cast. Many saw this as a good thing (Castiel was meant to appear in only a few episodes, but the very positive reception from audiences and critics led to him becoming an Ascended Extra and eventually a Breakout Character, especially since the earlier seasons developed a Broken Base where one half of fans believed that the show's exclusive focus on the brothers resulted in a great deal of They Wasted a Perfectly Good Character or Plot), but Bibros see him as the harbinger of They Changed It, Now It Sucks!.
Many of Lapistier's edits on the Supernatural YMMV page and others are fine enough and stay nonpartisan, but other times it comes off as a Bibro Righting Great Wrongs or stealth complaining about fans who feel differently. I am not the only one who feels this way, am I?
Edited by AlleyOopopenComplaining on arrowverse pages. Live Action TV
So the troper iamnoone is writing massive rants to bash the various arrowverse shows for basically not being a one to one of the comics.
this edit amounts to large texts of They changed now it sucks in constant paragraphs, here they speculated on one entry calling Marc Guggenheim a liar with out proof and also did a long complaint bashing both verses, this entry is also really bashy and quite a few more.
This was reported before but they have continued. Since then without stopping.
openBTVS removal in "Hostility On The Set" Live Action TV
Nerae removed the Buffy examples in Hostility on the Set here without reason, which Vox Aquila readded, but then Nerae removed them again without explanation. While I personally find that the entry could be trimmed down since its getting a bit long, I don't think it should be removed entirely especially without any reason given and I don't want this to devolve into an edit war.
openMarcoPolo250 Live Action TV
Marco Polo 250 trimmed down and cut multiple examples from ReBoot: The Guardian Code for apparently no reason.
The only edit reason they gave was "Spoilers", but the only spoilers they cut were from the original series, which don't even need to be hidden, let alone cut entirely. And not every change was spoiler-related anyway.
I PM'd them a couple of days ago but they have not responded.
openPossible issue with YMMV item at Roots (2016) Live Action TV
Okay, so usually I'm good leaving YMMV entries alone even if I disagree, but this seemed...a touch disturbing. The entry:
- Unintentionally Unsympathetic: Despite roughly half of the miniseries focusing on Kunta Kinte and his future generations portraying him almost as a messianic figure, a steadfast Mandinka warrior who never gave in, more often than not he comes across as little more than a spoiled Jerkass, even before his enslavement (picking fights in a dance circle, for example). His own father even calls him out for being irresponsible by saying he "won't be around forever to fix {Kunta Kinte's} mistakes". After his enslavement, his "sense of identity" isn't helped by his constant reference to Mandinka warriors; he was nearly kicked out of warrior training for insubordination and reckless endangerment, becoming one solely on an emergency-induced technicality. Even then, the last his parents saw of him was taking a horse his father gifted him and attempting to leave for Timbuktu without warning (and story-wise, without cause). What really makes him unsympathetic, even despite the new dark, bigoted, racist, and unforgiving setting of Virginia, is that not only does he never come to understand just how his rebellious actions hurt those who simply wanted to get by and survive (he could have at least ASKED Fiddler if he wanted to help in his second escape attempt, since aiding in a slave's escape was punishable by lynching, even if the offender was white), but he convinces otherwise passive and generally well-off slaves to become rebels, including his own daughter. The show tries to portray this as them rediscovering their roots and who they really are, but ultimately falls flat since not only does it end up getting them into trouble they otherwise would not get into, but neither case do they ever actually FIND their identity. Hell When Fiddler/Henry is killed in his Moment of Awesome, Kunta Kinte STILL calls him "Fiddler", despite already knowing his name is Henry. Well done, Toby.
Okay, I'm not sure I need to point out how...problematic this is, but it's essentially victim-blaming a slave in the American south for...fighting back? For trying to start a slave rebellion? And nevermind the really, really problematic language of "passive and well off slaves"
I kind of think this one needs to be stricken.
openA whole lot of complaining edits Live Action TV
I just saw iamnoone's edit on the ymmv page of the Arrowverse and was mildly irritated by the blatant complaining and/or half-truths or outright falsehoods in that single edit alone. Then I found this. And then this and this and this and I'm sure its not even the end of it. I mean, don't get me wrong, these shows have attracted a fair bit of controversy, but his edits seem to basically boil down to overly long walls of texts complaining about "It's not like in the comics!" Permission to (at least partially) delete?
EDIT: Yeah, found this one too complaining.
Edited by ForenperseropenAnti-Ship obsession Live Action TV
This troper seems to have some serious obsession about a certain character, William Dey, on the show Supergirl. While he has been received with some controversy, especially after becoming the main characters new Love Interest, this guy takes it to a whole new level, especially on the non-YMMV character page
EDIT: There are also some blatant violations, like this entry, which has no citations https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.Supergirl2015#edit25413686
Edited by ForenperseropenSuspicious edits Live Action TV
I know Draco in Leather Pants is in need of TRS; probably there are inconsistencies in its definition and use. Still, I'm pretty sure the proper context for any trope entry needs to say how all of the requirements of the trope are met. For DILP, one of such requirements seems to be that the character in question is a jerk and/or a villain; consequently, I think a DILP entry needs to mention their bad actions. Also, I don't think a DILP entry should actually argue in their favor.
So, on YMMV.Wanda Vision, a Draco in Leather Pants entry saw a series of suspicious tweaks.
- Firstly, they deleted the bit about Hayward refusing to let Wanda bury Vision saying, "the reasons he gives her for why he can't give her Vision's body, that he can't just let a three-billion dollars’ android made of vibranium, an extremely valuable resource In Universe, be buried somewhere, are legitimate reasons that would've kept Wanda from attaining his body independent of Hayward and his Project Cataract plan." This sounds like justifying Hayward's disregarding Vision's will and treating him as a chunk of metal and not a person.
- Secondly, they said in their edit reason, "he did not make an attempt on the twins' lives twice. He only did it once" and cut any mention about that from the entry proper.
Then, Tropers/rva98014 edited the entry with the edit reason, "Hayward did not plan to use the anomaly from the start to animate White Vision. He discovered Wanda's residual energy would work as a power source and used it." I don't think this explains the removal of the point about Hayward's disinterest in rescuing the townsfolk. Also, I feel that "he is quite willing to ensure Wanda is killed" is quite downplaying the fact that Hayward attempts to murder her by firing a missile at her. (In another reason for deletion, the same troper cited "generalizations without providing real specifics.")
I edited the entry to (hopefully) accurately describe Hayward endangering and attacking the kids. I mentioned the speculation about them being hex creations - well, I thought this was interesting; I think the show's final scene implies they are real but saying so in a trope entry would verge on Speculative Troping, so I wrote that this is left ambiguous in the show, erring on the side of caution. I'm sorry about my grumpy edit reason.
Then, Tropers/rva98014 edited the entry again with the edit reason, "Draco In Leather Pants which is the situation where the fandom takes a controversial or downright villainous character and downplays his/her flaws. An example of this trope simply has to point out how this is occurring. It's not necessary to argue whether the "downplaying" is justified or not." I don't get how the edit reason goes with the edit itself because it removes the part pointing out Hayward's villainous actions but keeps the part that allegedly justifies him.
Then, Tropers/rva98014 made another little edit with the reason, "I think the "apparently" is needed. Yes he did disregard Vision's will but the story is unclear if he had done this without approval. It would not be the first time that a will was overridden nor were his actions particularly clandestine making it hard to justify "project cataract" was a top secret project no one but he knew about." This doesn't bring any proof from the show proper to back up this speculation. The speculation that shifts the blame from Hayward.
Also, Tropers/rva98014 edited another entry saying in their edit reason, "Agatha was not running the entire show, she just kept introducing elements of chaos into the scenarios because she was trying to get Wanda out of her pretend world. Sparky was never a real dog either and Agatha knew that she was only "killing" a prop." While the part about Agatha not running the entire show is true, the rest sounds like justifying her, too, and decisively calls Sparky "a prop." IIRC, the show doesn't indicate he isn't a real dog.
There's a mod note on top of the page saying that the guy is "an antagonist meant to be seen as an antagonist," and you should not whitewash him. From these edits, I get the feeling the Draco in Leather Pants entry about him is gradually turning into a self-demonstrating one, what's with cutting bits about his bad actions, downplaying, and justifying them. Should something be done?
openAgenda-based editing Live Action TV
I hate to bring this up again, but Team Tony has made some questionable deletions in Recap.Game Of Thrones S 8 E 1 Winterfell, Recap.Game Of Thrones S 8 E 4 The Last Of The Starks, and Recap.Game Of Thrones S 8 E 5 The Bells, leaving edit reasons that can be summed up as, "nuh-uh, Dany doesn't get any sympathy after what she did".
...Okay, that might be my frustration talking. The point stands, Team Tony removed entries that doubt Sansa's competence and/or show Dany's redeeming qualities.
I didn't send any notifiers, because we've had this discussion about their anti-Dany bias before (several times, in fact), and if those didn't stick then I doubt one PM will.
openX-Pac Heat Live Action TV
worldbeater has been removing examples from X-Pac Heat and putting them on the wrestling franchise's subpages, including YMMV, Trivia, and Horrible(?). I thought having things in multiple places was the whole point of Cross Wicking...
open Odd deletions and edit reasons. Live Action TV
So the troper Pikachu 4 Prezident
Has made some deletions with some concerning edit reasons.
- Here. They deleted a Values Resonance entry I think (I don't know where it was) with an edit reason that states this And as a final point, the whole "men in miniskirts" thing was stupid-looming back then and it still very much looks dumb now. I don't get why everyone feels the need to inject current year politics into their edits...
Theirs also this one.
- where tbf the entry itself might be kinda a stretch. But his actual edit reason is strange.
There seems to be an agenda here....
Edited by miraculousopenMs. Marvel They Changed It, Now It Sucks Page? Live Action TV
Ms. Marvel is out and has its own They Changed It, Now It Sucks! page...after one episode.
Not only are most of the examples poorly written (with some of them mentioning they were just complaints based on the trailer that were allayed by the actual show), but my main question is that the page has 3 examples so far (one of which has 3 sub-bullets, which can't possibly be necessary).
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/TheyChangedItNowItSucks/MsMarvel2022
Is there any sort of policy on how many examples are needed for a YMMV trope (at least, non Moment ones) to get its own page? Because 3 seems like it's pushing it and the examples could easily be pared down and slotted into the main YMMV page.
open DolphZ Live Action TV
For the past week, this troper has made a number of questionable edits regarding Season 4 of Stranger Things. They’ve added a number of entries whitewashing Jason Carver, while cutting or re-writing other entries to put him in a more favorable light, either claiming his actions were justified (such as not believing Lucas because he “sounded insane”), claiming his worse actions were accidental, or blaming only his followers for things they did even though Jason was the leader. They also cut several tropes from his character page (such as Asshole Victim and Karmic Death) and said in the edit reason that they were Ron the Death Eater. They also added an entry to the show’s YMMV page saying the roller rink scene is “often considered one of the worst in the show” when I’m not aware of anyone else saying this, and it seems to simply be that person’s opinion.
Edited by Javertshark13openRude edit reasons Live Action TV
First I thought it was an isolated incident, but Rombustier seems to have a thing for rude edit reasons
1 (This one seems rather tame in isolation)
3 (again rather harmless in isolation)
4 (For this I sent him a notifier, he never replied)
I'm sure there are more, but I think these are enough for a tap on the finger at least.
Edited by ForenperseropenLarge scale editing without discussion and leaving behind quite some mess Live Action TV
So troper adonzo has taken it upon himself to move large portions on MCU related pages.
While I am not necessarily opposed to what he did, I am opposed to how he did it, as he didn't discuss this with anybody and also left some mess behind
Biggest example: The folder for Mack is now double, both here and here, with no redirect.
I already PM'd him, but if he doesn't react, can his edits be reverted?
Edited by ForenperseropenBunch of zero content "The movie" pages Live Action TV
This Mr Thermoman Preacher guy is on a spree of no content entries for the Super Sentai series. He has made like a dozen "The movie" pages for the old Sentai shows, which usually have 2 tropes and a bare bones description. Someone needs to tell him to knock it off already.
Edited by JohnnyBeBadopenEdit War and bad examples Live Action TV
The user Crunchy Crunch keeps adding [[ https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=Characters.ArrowverseSTARLabs incorrect examples]] to Caitlin Snow/Killer Frost's entry on the Arrowverse: S.T.A.R. Labs page. Either the examples are blatantly incorrect, a clear example of entry pimping for the character, tremendous Square Peg Round Trope, using different trope names to say the same thing, overexplaining/Purple Prose, or contradicting the example in the middle, making it redundant. They've also edited Barry Allen's page with the same misinformation to make it seem like they have a romantic connection. When I removed the examples and explained why it was wrong (they seem fairly new to the site and probably don't know about the Edit War rules), they just put them back. I P Med them and they seemed to understand, but then they just started adding them back again. I tried to message them again but the system wasn't working (?), so I removed the examples again and said that if they did it again I would report them, which they're still ignoring. I'm aware that I added to the Edit War and I'm cool with being suspended myself if needs be.
openEditWar over a Complete Monster entry Live Action TV
Alright the troper Damolisher has been Edit Warring over an unapproved Complete Monster entry they added on Shortland Street. It was removed since it hadn't been brought to and vetted by the thread. Only for him to add it back with the weird edit reason of asking to prove it hadn't come to the thread....when people from the thread were the people who deleted it for being unapproved in the first place(??).
Edited by miraculous
Troper robin8821 seems to be on a editing spree for character pictures. While that in itself is not something bad, he has changed a whole lot of stuff (see here) without any discussion I could see. He seems to replace a lot of pictures and even outright delete some of them, without any real apparent reason.
Edit: Keeps going as we speak. I honestly think most of his pictures aren't an improvement, quite the contrary.
EDIT 2: He also left a whole lot of "Some caption text" captions.
Edited by Forenperser